John O’Melveny Woods, filmmaker and President of IndieTV, interviewed Phillip Jennings, the author of Nam-A-Rama, a satirical novel of the Vietnam War. Due from Forge in March, ’05.
Q: Why satire?
A: Satire is the sugar coating on something that is too bitter to swallow. It can reach more people, a broader spectrum. The lessons of Vietnam are too important to be left to the academics and historians. Who knows, we may get into another unpopular war.
Q: So you think there are similarities to the current war in Iraq?
A: I’m not sure. I’m don’t believe anything that anyone is saying about Iraq. Except for the troops who are there or have been there. Everyone else is probably lying. Do NOT ask me about WMD.
Q: I don’t believe you. Are you saying that we did everything just like it should have been done in Iraq?
A: I am assuming that we had Helen Keller drive a Porsche about a hundred miles an hour through Baghdad and write down her observations and that’s what we used for pre-invasion intelligence.
Q: Helen Keller is dead.
A: God rest her soul. The point is that we assumed too much. There is probably a large part of the American populace that assumed Iraqi men would kill just to get Baywatch reruns.
Q: So Bush screwed up?
A: Only in how he handled it. He should have rowed a boat out to the carrier and declared that we had only done the easy part and that lots of fighting was still ahead. I personally think he did the reasonable thing, but then I’m not running for anything.
Q: And the current plan to finish in Iraq?
A: Surely the loons on both sides don’t think that the U.S. military went over there without a clue as to how to act after the major battles. I would have just spun it differently. We paint “Stay Out Terrorists” signs at the border. Put out the word that terrorist don’t have the balls to come to Iraq. And then kill them in droves when they drop by to show off their machismo and cutlery. Which, by the way, is pretty much what we are doing. We have had some serious surprises. If you think that the loyal opposition wouldn’t have faced surprises, you are delusional. Can we talk about Vietnam?
Q: Can you summarize your views on Vietnam?
A: You mean in less than a 350 page novel? I guess not. Wouldn’t you think that may be why I wrote Nam-A-Rama? Other than that it was fun if you didn’t get something shot off or you weren’t systematically tortured for five or six years like the guys in Hanoi.
Q: I’m not sure that most people would think war could be fun.
A: Is that a question? But sure, some people might rather play tennis than drop flaming liquid from a twenty million dollar airplane onto people running around on the ground. It’s a matter of individual choice.
Q: Would you call you humor offbeat?
A: I would call it gallows humor for the most part. You know that Freud wrote that gallows humor was an indication of a grand soul. I believe that with all my heart. Actually I don’t read Freud, but Tom Robbins said Freud wrote it and no one tells the truth more than Tom Robbins.
Q: Speaking of authors, who influenced you? Who do you like?
A: I think the answer to both questions are pretty much the same. But if you wouldn’t mind, just put down a couple of French authors and maybe a German and Russian or two. I’d like to sound a bit erudite if it’s not too much trouble.
As to who really influenced me, probably John Updike, J.P. Donleavy, Terry Southern, P.J. O’Rourke (although he claims he’s younger than I am) Tom Robbins, John Irving, and Paul Theroux. Certainly Grahame Greene and Malcolm Lowry. Thomas Wolfe. Tom Wolfe. Wolf Man Jack. No, I guess he’s not a writer.
Q: Favorite books?
A: Probably follows along with the authors, but of course Catch-22 is an obvious favorite. Under the Volcano. The Sheltering Sky. Good Scent from a Strange Mountain. And The Unbearable Lightness of Being. That book blew me away for some reason. If it had pictures of Lena Olin naked in it, like she was in the movie, it might be one of my favorite books of all time.
Q: Seriously?
A: Depends on how many pictures of Lena Olin they put in.
Q: How long were you in Vietnam? A Marine pilot, right?
A: Right. I was there in 1965 and ’66. Then back in Southeast Asia in 1968, ’69, and ’70. That last tour was in Laos. Flying for Air America.
Q: That was the CIA airline.
A: It WAS??
Q: You seem to know a lot of the history of the Vietnam War.
A: I’ve studied the wars in Indochina since I was a teenager.
Q: That was a long time ago.
A: Aren’t you supposed to just be asking questions? Or are you allowed to be a wise ass too? Yes, I read about the fall of Dien Bien Phu when I was about twelve and for some reason became fascinated. I probably knew more about Vietnam than ninety percent of the guys that went over. But that was one of my problems. I had read Malcolm Brown and Bernard Fall, for example, so I knew we weren’t going to win.
Q: You knew that?
A: Well, they were smart guys, particularly Fall, who died on a patrol in I Corps with the Marines. Anyway, they made a darn strong case against our chances.
Q: Which was?
A: I couldn’t go into it all here, but certainly Giap and Ho Chi Minh had already pledged to lose men in a ten to one ratio. I believed them and was pretty sure that we weren’t ready to match that bid. We thought that our incredibly superior fire power would overcome the problem.
Q: Why didn’t it?
A:For one thing, we limited the use of our firepower. And also Ho Chi and Giap weren’t actually concerned that we could kill their boys in large clumps. They had plenty.
Q: So you believed them? That they were willing to sacrifice that many men?
A: At TET 1968 the enemy lost around 50,000 men in one long weekend blast. Almost as many as the U.S. lost in ten years.
I don’t remember them surrendering. I think they sent six or seven fresh divisions to the south almost immediately.
Q: So whose fault was it that the Vietnam War couldn’t be won by the U.S.?
A: Darryl Thompson.
Q: Who is Darryl Thompson?
A: An army guy. Lost the war for us. I’m still mad at him. The little bastard.
Q: Are you making fun of my question?
A: It was a dumb question. Did you think I could just give you an answer in 25 words or less on how we lost the war? And I do all my blaming in Nam-A-Rama. I blame everybody involved.
Q: Including yourself?
A: No. I was a hero. And I probably could have won the war by myself except for…
Q: Darryl Thompson?
A: Exactly.
Q: So you really don’t blame the media or the war protesters, or any particular group?
A: I blame anyone who didn’t do his job as a loyal American, whatever his job might have been. Warrior, journalist, sniveling weasel.
Q: Including protesters?
A: You’re hung up on the protesters, aren’t you? If they believed in what they were doing and were willing to sacrifice for their objectives, okay with me. Just running around protesting and burning things down. I don’t think so.
Q: But surely you must think some people…
A: I know you’re just trying to goad me into naming names. Okay. Sure anyone who actively aided and abetted the enemy would be on my short list to put in the ass-kicking line.
I think that Westmoreland and McNamara were more or less the epitome of the disgusting politicians and military leaders that sold us out. So now you’ve made me name them. Satisfied?
Q: Westmoreland and McNamara? Those two are not usually associated with causing the war to be lost. Why do you think they—in your view—screwed up the war?
A: They were drunk.
Q: The entire war?
A: Just for the planning and execution of the plan. I’m not sure about the rest of the time. I’m just speculating of course.
Q: Anything else to add?
A: We shouldn’t start wars or fight wars when we’re drunk.
Q: I’m sure future presidents and the congress will keep that in mind.
A: I doubt it.
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